No More Amp Heads with TRADEMARK names or logos PLEASE

[strangedogs]

After discussing this with the ADMINs we're asking that the Headcase Builders refrain from posting any Amp Heads with TRADEMARK NAMES and/or LOGO's. This is a violation of TRADEMARK infringement laws. We appreciate all the hard work and beautiful work but we're only trying to protect the integrity of GAM. We're asking that all the builders EDIT their own posts and delete any heads that use TRADEMARK Names and/or Logos. You'll have 24 hours to comply with our request and then I'll have to do it and issue warnings to the poster.

Thanks guys for understanding this request!

-Pat (Strangedogs)

[Leirbagpdl]

Sorry, editing...

[Tetragammatone]

Edited.

[Tetragammatone]

Edited.

[Brohymn]

Tetragammatone take it easy... relax... this was my decition, and I thought a lot of time on the subject ..

Who want to keep posting material with TRADEMARK NAMES please dont do it here...
It's a free place but we cant have here any TRADEMARK infringement stuff...

We need to protect the integrity of GAM as strangedogs already said on the last post. GAM can not be responsible for this stuff.

We already had enough troubles in the past because infringement material...

Thanks.

[Tetragammatone]

Edited.

[Tetragammatone]

Edited.

[Brohymn]

No problem.
BTW my avatar is just a picture. im not using it in any kind of comercial/free product..., so there is no infringement...

cheers

[Tetragammatone]

Edited.

[Brohymn]

But they are used in a product... So its ilegal...

[sjc]

I just want to be clear: I completely respect this site and it's admins so I'm not being a smart ass when I ask this...

If someone makes an amp that uses a trademark name / logo is it ok to just post a topic saying "hey guys, I made a Marshall style amp and it can be downloaded from xyz.com"....?? Are links to the download ok here or not. I'll respect it either way.

Thanks,
Scott

[atalwar]

No problem.
BTW my avatar is just a picture. im not using it in any kind of comercial/free product..., so there is no infringement...

cheers

It's all matter of perception, and to some even this site will appear as a commercial entity because of it's ad's based revenue model( no matter how humble the intentions are to support this website). Thus any usage in any context can be seen as a violation.

Anyways I understand the need of removal of certain stuff but why the non trademarked stuff like custom curves etc have also been removed? Or was that done on posters own accord?

[atalwar]

ok thx,
lemme know bro if you need any help cleaning up or whatever you need.!

btw, dropbox is allowed right (with legit stuff of course)?

[Brohymn]

Hi again. The curves are allowed!! no problems with that.. it's non trademarked stuff.

Yes, mediafire is not allowed. You can use dropbox if you need.

I'm sorry for the trouble but in order to maintain this website we need to follow some rules.

Atalwar i know it's all matter of perception but if you received an email from google,hosting company or any other entity saying that the site will be shutdown because infringement policy, our perception doesn't mean nothing then. They decide...they make the rules.... not us.

Why you need to use skins with the trademark name/logo??! Change the name like all the companies do because they cannot take the risk of an legal action....

Thanks.
cheers

[Ken McLaren]

I want to first say, Brohym and GAM has been long term supporters of what we are trying to do, and GAM is only protecting their future. So, head case builders should not really be mad at GAM, or brohym. This is not an infringement of your own personal rights, they are just protecting the forum. Brohym and in fact all the mods here at GAM have had access to Head Case development since the very beginning, and even bofore that when it was Shred 1.5x.

These are our friends here at GAM, and Always have been. So, lets cut them all a break and support them...

I also want to at this time comment on something you said brohym in order to ensure that this comment is not open to incorrect interpretations ...

Why you need to use skins with the trademark name/logo??! Change the name like all the companies do because they cannot take the risk of an legal action....

Just to be perfectly clear, because some may read that and mistakenly think that those heads were created by AcmeBarGig. None of the heads containing trade marked logos released here were AcmeBarGig heads. We did not create or skin them. They were all made by head case users. We have no more control over what the user creates or skins their heads with than Microsft does over what documents are created with word.

In fact, We have stated officially, that one should NOT use trademark logos when creating heads, and those heads will not be available from the Asylum website when its complete. Further to this we have no control over where or how a user distributes their heads. The Virtualampstash.com is NOT a division of AcmeBarGig. We asked them to include us on a disclaimer, and they were good enough to adhere to our wishes. Which is appreciated. In no uncertain terms, ABG has absolutely no control over the content of that website. So if they decide to continue to allow users to post their trademark logo heads, that is their call.

[atalwar]

Hi again. The curves are allowed!! no problems with that.. it's non trademarked stuff.
Atalwar i know it's all matter of perception but if you received an email from google,hosting company or any other entity saying that the site will be shutdown because infringement policy, our perception doesn't mean nothing then. They decide...they make the rules.... not us.
Thanks.
cheers

I thought i posted that I understand and agree with what you guys have to do regarding trademark infringement etc. however what i meant was that there are also other things (apart from these heads) that may seem like normal to some but still can be classified as violations to certain degrees. All depends who, how and how they wanna see it.

Why you need to use skins with the trademark name/logo??

I don't , nor do i encourage it. I am all for originality and creativity.
Cheers Man.

[Leirbagpdl]

Why you need to use skins with the trademark name/logo??!

For me It is more for visual appeal, and because it is fun to play with the images and make cool skins, knobs switche....
Now, in hindsight, I fear Mr. Dalton have some sort of problem with virtualampstash... this thing PIPA / SOPA or whatever the name it has now is still working. =(

I think I'll consider doing things separately. Making skins detached from jpg files used by the program. Make it safe for everyone (law suits are the Greatest PITA off all PITas).

[strangedogs]

Tetragammatone - I just had to go through and EDIT numerous posts from you - I was hoping you would be DECENT and do it yourself. My AVATAR is a photo of an Amp I own.

[dennyps4]

Sucks that it had to come to this but, it needs to understood that a cranky amp company with a petty cash account worth more than we all make put together, can really ruin someone's day. It's not worth the future of the site that made all this stuff possible, to take a hit that can't afford it. I would hate to see this site get shut down, an ounce of prevention can make life a lot better for everyone. Unfortunately corporate America like to make examples of people, don't let it be you!

[strangedogs]

Thanks dennyps4... I'm sure I made some folks angry over this but I assure everyone I'm just trying to protect GAM from any flack. I thought the heads were amazing but we have to be careful eh.

[Ken McLaren]

I agree.
I'm in kind of a weird position on this. I want to support all head bulders, LOGO'd heads or not, but at the same time for the "protective measures", I have to limit my comments on them. In fact I should not even say that a head sounds close to another. ABG can't and won't take the position of being the skin or tone Police.

What if Adobe said, you cannot do a rendition of the Mona Lisa? Or no pictures of the White House is allowed to be made with this software?.. Thats the equivalent of us saying you cannot make a skin that looks like a Marshall. Or, you cannot make a head that sounds like a Mesa. I totally understand GAM's position on this, no question about it, but really, all we can do is tell people about trademark issues. Its up to them to follow or not..

[Ken McLaren]

I'm not sure, but I'm curious how the Fair Use statutes apply to this, or in fact even if they do apply?

I know our official stance as a company on whether a digital amp sounds like the real thing or not is simple, and we've said it a million times before. "If you want a Marshall sound, there is only one place to get it, buy a Marshall." Likewise, if you want an MMJ, SJC, or Rockaxe sound, there is only one pleace to get that, get an MMJ, SJC, or Rockaxe head...

[atalwar]

Guys, The context of usage also plays its role.
One can do and use whatever they want for personal use. It gets problematic when you start distributing or passing stuff on and what you pass that stuff as.

A forum post discussing stuff and using this stuff can be taken very lightly however another forum post passing things to others as somethings they ain't are in true sense can be taken very seriously (irrespective of how noble the intentions be behind that).

In This Case,as said time and again, to serve and survive this forum like any other needs money and with for that they have agreed to certain terms and conditions laid down by their revenue providers, so irrespective of even what their personal beliefs be about this whole thing, they still have to abide by what's laid down, and in sense for greater Good.

The forum moderators have to, as well as are trying to avoid (to their best abilities) some serious problems that might arise beyond their manageable means and which is understandable.

On a personal note, why jump on someone else's bandwagon when you can be your Brand/Product.
and if anything is to be learnt from history, Jim Marshall did't make and distribute his so based on bassman clone as a fender bassman did he ?? j/k

I am sure neither GuitarAmpModeling nor any other developer here would like to be part of all this . So as users who love these guys and use their products/servies,perhaps we could show a little respect and restraint on ourselves to keep these out of any trouble due to what we may feel as appropriate.

however having said that,

In the past there have been few notings/postings on these forums that won't come out to be Third Party Trademarks friendly in either sense, so it is expected that such future postings/content would also be in consideration as violation and dealt with accordingly.

[Ken McLaren]

Dalton's points were totally separate from mine and I'm not sure what the relationship is? All I was questioning was whether the fair use statutes would apply to this. I did not suggest that all posts be checked or that anyone may be hypocrite...


I have since found out (as far as I am able to understand) that they (Fair Use) in fact don't. I was not thinking of this so that they could continue to be used here on GAM, I was more thinking about whether they could be used on Dalton's amp stash web site.

For example, If an amp builder released a plugin amp and called it a Mesa Boogie, and then compared that to the real Mesa Boogie for the purpose of claiming superiority for the plug version of it. That would not work, because on his/her product they are using trademarks. However, if he was to name it Booger and then make that claim, it might. This is the same reason why Coke and Pepsi can be on the same commercial, and Coke or Pepsi can claim a superior product over the other without litigation.

I'm not a lawyer and I could completely be out to lunch on my interpretation, but thats what I was able to figure out with my rudimentary knowledge of law..

[DaveClark]

Hi all,

One of the things that may help with discussions of trademarks is to consider what a trademark is and what it is supposedly doing:

Trademarks represent the SOURCE of goods. Likewise: Service marks represent the source of services.

Therefore, when someone claims trademark infringement, they are claiming that the respondent is misrepresenting the source of goods.

If one is producing an amp sim, and the skin of the amp sim contains a trademark of an amplifier manufacturer, the amp manufacturer could reasonably (legal definition of "reasonable") claim that some people may become confused about the source of the amp sim. The presence of the trademark may convince some people that the manufacturer must have been involved in the creation of the amp sim.

On some threads here at GAM, some people have claimed that "This is a pic of an amp that I own." This is NOT necessarily a good defense. It depends on what you are offering. If there is any chance of misleading someone about the source of whatever it is you are offering (if anything), then it could be regarded as infringement.

----------

Infringement is a civil thing. There are no "infringement police."

The term "fair use" as I have seen it is restricted to copyrights. This is the doctrine that there exist conditions wherein an author has the right to quote verbatim portions of the works of another author, despite the protection of the quoted works under copyright statutes. This is itself stated in the statutes (USA). I'm not aware of any kind of "fair use" or what are called "exceptions" under trademark law, but there may be something....


But again, just think about what you are selling or offering others in your goods, services, etc. and whether or not there is any potential for confusion about the source of this stuff.

Arguments such as "Well, everybody knows that amp sims are just simulations of ... " and so on are not acceptable. Even one person becoming confused and giving their money to the wrong people (in their mind) is taking away something from someone who was supposed to be protected from that happening.

Regards,
Dave Clark