Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

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glorioso
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Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby glorioso » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:09 am

I figured this is the place for an answer or 2. I know everyone has their own taste as I do, but where to start? I have a HD500x playing through a Fender Mustang III V2. I am very interested in FRFR and losing the amp. StageSource is too big and too much. There needs to be a reasonable solution out there.

My Sweetwater guy suggested Turbosound Milan M12 Powered Loudspeaker, but wasn't overly enthusiastic about it. I want the live sound to be close to the headphone sound. I know it won't be exact but I can EQ the differences.

I searched the forum for an answer and didn't see anything, so I apologize if this has been covered. There doesn't seem to be much on the web or You Tube either. I assume Line 6 will produce something soon that is compatible and not $800.

Who's making something good below $600? Anyone using anything good?

Thanks!

glorioso
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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby glorioso » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:38 am

anyone seen this? http://www.laney.co.uk/products/product_details/162

or use a QSC K Series?

jorismak
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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby jorismak » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:05 am

They say it's ment to sit _between_ your amp and your amp speaker. I think that means it's to sit between an output section and a real speaker cabinet to take the load.

Meaning it can't handle the load itself, so you still need a real speaker cab, and I wonder if you can (in a decent way) disconnect the speaker from the Mustang to sit something in between.

What you want is any reasonable solid state poweramp + a PA speaker :P. They don't always come cheap.
The Atomic Amps powered FRFR cabs are popular with Fractal players but they also cost between 750,- and 1000,-.

So if it has to be cheaper, you go into the cheaper Chinese territory . Where you at, europe? Thomann.de has a lot of stuff from their homebrand chinese-import-branded stuff 'the box', and Behringer has powered fullrange speakers, and the come in the 140,- euro range to the 400,- euro range so to speak. What makes a good PA / FRFR speaker, I have no idea. That means you have a lot of reviews to read up to :).

Maybe this is something? Tech 21 Power Engine 60 1x12 (http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/power ... ine60.html).

It is meant as an active 1x12 cab just for modeling stuff, but it doesn't have a real FRFR speaker on board (the poweramp is clean though).

Another good question, is the sound coming from this thing meant for you to monitor or for the audience? Makes a difference to what kind of shape and power it needs :).

glorioso
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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby glorioso » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:53 pm

Thanks. I think you're right $700 seems to be the territory. The QSC K8 seems to be an option right now.

jorismak
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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby jorismak » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:17 pm

Like I said, think about where it will be on stage (or near stage). Specially if it's for the audience, you need to think about where to place it. If you're walking in front of it the whole time, the audio-stage and response will change each time you pass by it, will be very annoying for the audience :). If you're playing only stages which have a PA system and it's only for monitoring yourself, it can be a lot smaller, and maybe wedges are an option then.

These active-PA speakers are all around from almost all major brands. Peavey, Laney, Behringer, M-audio, the list goes on and on. Every brand that does _Something_ with pro-audio has PA speakers I guess :).

And if you're on a budget, don't say no to Behringer stuff right from the start, there might be good stuff between their line up. Their outboard digital EQ's are actually very good for instance :). You just gotta read up on it / try things out.

And remember, you've now been playing a HD500x -> combo amp. I assume that the cab-modeling is then turned off on the HD500x? Since you're going into a real cab (combo). If you hook it up to a FRFR speaker, you need to turn the cab modeling on, and that presents a whole lot of tone-options. Just as with IR's in the amp-sim world, you'll discover that cab+speaker+mic is about 50% or even more from your complete guitar tone. It's important :).

Could also be that you're been running the HD500x with cab-emulation already on, and then still plugging it in front of your Mustang amp. That basically means you've been doing it wrong :), but you like the sound of it. You've been running an 'amp-into-a-cab-into-a-cab' :). Taking that lead and putting it into an active PA speaker (any PA speaker) means you loose one of the cabs, and it will sound really different, and you may not like it at first. If that's the case, NO option will ever sound good to you unless you plug your HD500x into the fx-return of a real amp to get the cab-into-cab idea back :P.

glorioso
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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby glorioso » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:36 pm

I run the 4 cable method into the combo. The PA would replace my amp, so it's more for me than the audience. I think I'm on the right track with QSC for now.

These multi effect units are really made to be played through FRFR. Just trying to find the right combo. You're right, I need to try some out, just trying to make a list of options.

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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby tonyp145 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:34 pm

QSC makes lovely speakers but might be overkill for a monitor. As a budget solution you might consider a used Mackie SRM-350, it's still pretty light and compact and you can get one for about $200-$250 used. I've owned several over the years (JBL EON-10 too) and always had good experiences with them. Of course if you're in love with the QSC I can certainly understand that too :D

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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby Slicklickz » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:11 am

tonyp145 wrote:QSC makes lovely speakers but might be overkill for a monitor. As a budget solution you might consider a used Mackie SRM-350, it's still pretty light and compact and you can get one for about $200-$250 used. I've owned several over the years (JBL EON-10 too) and always had good experiences with them. Of course if you're in love with the QSC I can certainly understand that too :D

Used JBL EONs are everywhere,10s,12s,and 15s.I have a pair of EON G2 15s that are 400 watts RMS each.They're bi-amped,with 300 watts on the 15 and 100 on the horn.I tried some RCFs out and they were nicer than my JBLs,the horns are really smooth.

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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby bobx » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:04 pm

Isnt it strange that we try to model amps with the HD500 in which we might have a dynamite amp already? The digital effects out of my HD500 sound great into my recording setup and good into my PA but not as well out of an 12" amp speaker cabinet. I have been wrestling with my HD500 with the 4 cable method to my guitar amp, as well as connecting directly to an active Mackie two way 15" PA speaker. It just doesnt seem to sound as professional as my Mesa Boogie Mark V does live.

I believe that digital effects and modelling can never sound 100 percent as a great amp anyway. If I already have a great amp then why bother with a HD500? Setup and tuning of patches thru the HD500 is very time consuming and frustrating because different tweeks for the same patch are needed whether playing thru PA, recording setup or thru guitar amp. It seems way too much trouble than it is worth for the cost.

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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby Hielkenator » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:47 am

bobx wrote:Isnt it strange that we try to model amps with the HD500 in which we might have a dynamite amp already? The digital effects out of my HD500 sound great into my recording setup and good into my PA but not as well out of an 12" amp speaker cabinet. I have been wrestling with my HD500 with the 4 cable method to my guitar amp, as well as connecting directly to an active Mackie two way 15" PA speaker. It just doesnt seem to sound as professional as my Mesa Boogie Mark V does live.

I believe that digital effects and modelling can never sound 100 percent as a great amp anyway. If I already have a great amp then why bother with a HD500? Setup and tuning of patches thru the HD500 is very time consuming and frustrating because different tweeks for the same patch are needed whether playing thru PA, recording setup or thru guitar amp. It seems way too much trouble than it is worth for the cost.


Ahem, please step out of the 90's...are make effort to learn what you are doing and want to achieve.

On topic:
Laney's IR X expansion amps are great for what you want AND you CAN keep your cabinet and amp If you would want to.
They also DO offer the option to run your rig stand alone over the PA speakers so with a pair of those you are fully covered.

Should you want to go Full FRFR, look at options like Atomic reactor amps, or Cerwin-Vega P1500X ( GIBSON ), Line 6 stagesource, AccuGroove amps, or even a cheap Behringer PA speaker.

Might as well mouth water over the new Fractal axe fx 2 XL and the Fractal FX8 pedalboard fx processor.
( to be honest I think it's overpriced comparing to companys like Zoom and Line 6 + all VST Modeling options in combination with a midi pedalboard. My Zoom g9.2tt has a lot of the features of the FX8 + CRAZY pedal options.
The zoom has 96khz sampling for all effects + the warmth of the 2 ax7 tubes ( they DO matter, despite of the starved plate design ), only the amp modeling is sub par with the included cab modeling but, this can be helped with external cabinet modeling software or hardware options ( torpedo c.a.b. pedal?) )
Also note that the Fractal FX8 has NO amp and cabinet modeling!
And unless you are a professional, I would not go that route.
I have made recordings with these cheaper options and no-one could tell the tonal differences.
Note that I am NOT talking about 'feel' because there IS a difference.
But I was surprised by the (newish) Zoom G5 amp modeling, wich is very, very natural and real life. Especially seeing its price point and it;s lower sampling rate....

Personally I would go withn the LANEY option.
It offer both worlds and the flexibilty to change your setup as preferred.
( Normal amp cabinet, Hybrid amp cab + FRFR setup, and Completely FRFR )
Youcould also look at this option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYHwRn6ueY

and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO90g-Jh6L0
All option vary about 200 ~ 2000 euros. You can make it as expensive as you want really.

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mastermindjacquard
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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby mastermindjacquard » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:05 am

this is perfect for what your seeking and insanely affordable , you could actually get 2 in your price range
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... ve-speaker

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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby elmesclador1 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:55 pm

and what do you think about a DB Technologies FM?
like this: http://www.dbtechnologies.com/EN/Produc ... _p746.aspx

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mastermindjacquard
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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby mastermindjacquard » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:13 am

elmesclador1 wrote:and what do you think about a DB Technologies FM?
like this: http://www.dbtechnologies.com/EN/Produc ... _p746.aspx


the price is high and can't find a lot of reviews with peoples experience with the system over time.
the specs look really good though its a system i would love to try out because co-axle is my favorite when implemented right . but for that kind on money you can get

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... pa-speaker

high quality sound and you can find hundreds and hundreds of high rated reviews of people having them for years online

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mastermindjacquard
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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby mastermindjacquard » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:24 am

my personal experience is if your going to end up spending a ton of money on a setup like that its not going to sound as good as a real tube amp mic'ed off, unless you want a nine inch nails type sound or rammstein type tone go for it but if your getting into the $1000 price point for amp sim and FRFR setup it will sound worse than a good 15 watt tube amp with good fx loop mic'd off for much less money and much more realistic sets of tones when added tube preamps and pedals to get many channels.

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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby mastermindjacquard » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:31 am

iv'e used tons of setups over the years the last frfr was similar to qsc but yamaha 2 x powered 12's and the 1500 watt powered subwoofer with dedicated laptop and interface all just for for live amp sim. it was valued at 3500$ but ya know what it sounded shittier than a real amp because 20 percent of a great tone is a real tube power amp and a real good guitar speaker and cabinet for your rich creamy 3d lively full sound. this just my experience going through all that.

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Re: Best FRFR for Multi Effects Unit? HD500X

Postby voog46385 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:28 am

What the need for better understanding of each other's needs.ruby888


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