Mercuriall U530&Free Stuff

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C.O.D.
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby C.O.D. » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:04 am

Metafis wrote:Thank you for the interest, guys!

@C.O.D.
It's a fair request. It comes down to the hard decisions we must make: what would a majority of customers want? We decided that the majority would want a plugin that has all the needed parts for creating wide variety of tones.
As we are a very small team, we just don't have time to cut things out and create a build for just an amp. It's much harder and more time consuming than one can think.

So, I cannot promise "just the amp" version right now. I'd love to have it one day, though.

Sorry, with all due respect to your work and what you've done so far but you're building a high-end product with an high-end approach and sell it with the attitude as if we were all simple consumers and that while posting in a forum full of sound freaks. I absolutely have no clue how you could come to such a decision regarding what the majority wants and what not. I would say the majority of us is not as simple as one might think. Should I sell all my impulses right now? I mean, you can't ignore this absolute fantastic marquet of IR's that is growing every day with it's amazing variety. If there even was an impulse loader like in BIAS I could understand your argument a little better in terms of a full suite but in the end of the day I'm sure, the people love you for your AMP's and and how fantastic they sound and not because they're getting the 10th reverb or the hundredth stomp box. If we would talk about a portable app for a tablet, so ok, that would be something different. Don't get me wrong, I also will buy this anyway (I even would pay 25 bucks for an amp if it sounds right) but I hate it to be forced to buy something that I don't need or want, no matter if it's MS Office or an Amp Suite. Finally the known problem (Amplitube) occurs again: How do I put other effects into the chain and why do I have to renounce some of the features when not using this thing as a whole?
Personally I play Pre-Rola Greenbacks M's and H's and sometimes G1265's or a EV12L - not the most deviously idea in combination with your included amps, right? So unfortunately nothing in your portfolio for me but: Will your amps sound and behave the same if I disable the integrated cab section and instead use an IR-loader? (not to forget, I can't use your delay and reverb doing it this way)

Please do not feel offended by my words, I really like your work and want to support you without fail alone for the reason that your JCM800s are my daily companions for years now (with all their simplicity of use)

PS: Some more questions in general:
How do I pan the guitar sound in Sparks? I couldn't find any pan dial - do I have to pan the complete sound with reverb and delay in my DAW?
Can the Poweramps and Preamps be seperately disabled like in U530?
Are the IR's you're using the ones from RedWirez? I just ask because tha's what I thought when reading the names...

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby jorismak » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:23 am

It's not like he is saying it's a dumb feature request, he's saying that they have to make priorities and other stuff comes first.
He even acknowledges that it is a good suggestion.

Mercurial is one of the smaller guys / teams and they're trying d*mn hard to get noticed and be regarded as a serious contender.
With all the good words from his earlier free VSTs I think we all say they deserve it .

And to get noticed and be regarded as a serious product , you must be complete.
We here have our own impulses (and I agree that it is a must have feature ) that we want to use,
But the other 90% (or even 99%) out there wants speakers to be included . I'm betting a lot of newbies are put off by Kazrog Thermionik for example for its basic approach.
But the pros love it.

So I completely agree / understand that over at mercurial they now have to spend the limited time to finishing and releasing the product as a complete suite.

But mercurial please, let custom IRs (or turning of the built in cabs ) be one of the higher priorities after that :).
In my opinion, no need to make another IR loader , there are enough of those. A simple bypass should be possible down the road right ?

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby zolaive » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:25 pm

+ 100 for what C.O.D. wrote.

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Metafis
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:03 pm

@C.O.D.

The decision we had to do: create a self-sufficient suite or just an amp? We chose the first option. It was based on the market research, customer comments on our previous product and the goals we want to accomplish. This is how the decision was made.

If you plan to use external IRs with Spark - of course, it is possible. You can turn off the cab (and FX, depending on your philosophy of building the sound chain) and put an IR loader after Spark. It will work just fine.

And yes, it is not possible to put other plugins somewhere in the middle of the Spark chain. This is how it's built at the moment.

I don't feel offended, all good. I am here to represent the company, listen to feedback and openly discuss things. Eventually, all this will lead to better products and better understanding of the customer needs.

Panning - not available in Spark. Needs to be done in your DAW. What are the use cases for having a panning button within Spark?
Preamp and poweramp cannot be separately turned off. Potential feature in future.
No, the IRs are our own custom made ones.

I personally would want to see a system where we have "bare bones" products, i.e. JUST single amps and "the full package" product that has all necessary stuff to work "in a box". Of course, priced accordingly.
Not promising anything, btw.
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com

C.O.D.
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby C.O.D. » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:39 pm

@Metafis
Hmm, panning is needed for placing your guitar signal BEFORE the reverb (and the probably stereo delay?) does it's job - otherwise you would pan the whole signal which means in this case a complete stereo reverb + guitar on either one side or the other. That's not how it is done - you would always place a reverb over the configured stereo field. Maybe you have a look at Amplitube, there it is correct, the guitars are panned before the master effects / reverb...

Btw, regarding the suite or no suite thing, I'd bet my left nut that you would make A LOT more money by offering the amps additionally as seperate modules for a reasonable price.

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:04 pm

@C.O.D.
Yeah, I see. Panning can be easily done in any DAW, or there is some other catch?

We will look into the business models. Definitely not a closed topic for us.
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby C.O.D. » Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:19 pm

@Metafis
What I wanted to say is if you pan the signal in the DAW - which means after the stereo reverb and/or delay of Sparks - you will destroy this stereo room signal. You just want to pan the guitar and not the room it is into.

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby jorismak » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:45 pm

@Metafis:
Imagine the chain _inside Spark_ (not inside a DAW), something simplified as this:

input (guitar) -> preamp -> loop -> poweramp -> cab -> mic -> studiofx -> output (back to the daw / plugin output).

COD / me / we want to pan _inside_ of Spark, somewhere before the studiofx stage. Since there are STEREO effects like reverb and delay inside of Spark, changing the stereofield before that plugin has a way different impact than changing stereo field after. I also sort of assume (might be wrong though) that there is some kind of stereo room mic which also impacts stereo-fx.

A single guitar mic going dead center into a long deep wide room reverb, and then panning the whole lot to 80% left (for example) sounds way different than having one guitar panned left 80% going into a long deep wide room reverb and leaving it as is. At least, I'm assuming the reverb in this example is a stereo reverb.

If all the FX inside of Spark are mono then it doesn't matter, but to be honest, if all the FX in Spark are mono, please don't bother with FX in Spark then.

The Amplitube example (not at all saying you need to blindly copy something, of course not, it's just one example): Each 'IR' is considered a mic there. So you have a little mini mixer where each mic can be panned or adjusted in volume. The room mic is a stereo-mic in this case. So you can place each IR / mic in the stereo field and adjust the volume / mix-percentage, and then that whole lot goes into the Post-FX.

TL;DR -> mono guitar sound panned center into stereo reverb then panned left in DAW is completely different than mono guitar sound panned left into stereo reverb.


Final point: If the difference is that much to really care about I don't know and is a good question for how big of an issue this might be. It all depends on how wide and heavy the FX are and we can't know that yet :).

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Metafis
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:16 pm

Yeah, I see.
Something we may potentially consider.
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby PVDHP » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:21 pm

Any news on spark release?

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Metafis
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:34 pm

As we announced earlier, planning to release on December 20th. Which is tomorrow =)
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby zolaive » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:40 pm

Great !!

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby jorismak » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:01 pm

Paypal gives an error when using the 'buy now' link on the Mercurial homepage.. Something about missing info.

edit: nvm, keep retrying, 3rd works apparently.
It is a bit weird (and illegal as far as I know) to use the donation system for buying commercial stuff.

edit2:
You mail that the account has been created, and you include the password the user entered... BIG NO NO, don't mail passwords. C'mon, it's almost 2017 this should be in a webdev-101 instruction :P.
Last edited by jorismak on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jorismak
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby jorismak » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:26 pm

Only have the chance to run some DI's through it instead of really play it.

The reverbs are stereo. Room seems way to big, specially compared to Hall 1, some tweaking required there. Once I turned down the size and played with the damping it sounds more like a room reverb instead of a short delay.

Built in cabs are basic but nice and to the point. I see myself using those for quick 'get up and running' sounds. The cab section can be turned off.

I get the feeling the amps are a bit 'dark sounding' in nature (I'm pumping the presence quite high in all of them) but on the other hand, the built in cabs have a lot of bite if you go between the cap-edge and cap region. Lots of low end in the cabs as well, specially the royer has good proximity effect. Makes them sound really balsy (and requires some mixing to use in a mix I guess, but sounds nice and balsy and full stand alone)

I am missing the jump functionality in the super-lead and bassbreaker models from what I see? Or am I missing something or confusing something?

Haven't played with the built-in stomps or the noise gate yet (don't think I ever will :)).

Once again here (and in the amplitube model) and in real life, I find myself surprisingly liking the ADF #34 channel so much (so glassy, bitey. The 'normal' AFD mode can sound a bit modern and go towards scooped hard rock, the #34 mode has that real marshall upper end and rawness to it)

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Metafis
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:02 pm

As you may have noticed, we've released Spark today! All the details are available at https://mercuriall.com/cms/details_spark
Check out the Demo - hope you like it!

Image
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com

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Metafis
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:13 pm

@jorismak

Thank you for all the comments.
Password - noticed this as well. Agree it must not be visible, talking to developers.

Re. donation. I know =( We must take steps to address this.

Re. Jump functionality - wazzdat? =)

I really dig AFD as well. Amazing amp!
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby jorismak » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:32 pm

.. really? I have to explain what jumping a plexi-era amp is? :P.

The Super Lead and Super Bass had 2 channels. One 'bass focused', one 'treble focused'. Shared EQ and everything, but every channel had their own gain knob. Basically it's not really a real 'channel', it's a separate input.

But there are 4 jacks on the front. 'Jumping' them means you use the two inputs at the same time. You plug into input 1 left, then run a small patch cable from input 2 left to input 1 right. You now get the two channels at the same time, with both gain knobs active.

This gives you the possibility to dial in how much gain you want on the low end and how much on the high end, making it possible to prevent bass flub and other stuff by keeping the bass-gain low and turning the treble-gain up. This is the reason 'plexi style amps' make good mods into modern territory. With an extra gain stage (or a booster or high out pickups) they can be very modern sounding! But turn the gain down and the bass-gain up a bit and you get a vintage marshall.

The gain for lows and gain for highs is not unlike what the Fortin Natas (and Randall Satan) do.

It's such a well known thing to do with older Marshalls that a package specially made for modelling older Marshalls is a bit weird without it

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Metafis
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:48 pm

I see, thanks. I am not into Marshalls myself, so a good piece of information.
Will write down this feedback =)
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby jorismak » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:32 pm

http://s262.photobucket.com/user/marant ... 0.jpg.html
http://bruceclement.com/music/images/misc/1959-jump.jpg

Or 'thegearpage' "JTM/Plexi/JMP 4 hole Marshall Circuit Appreciation thread".. That just sounds dirty :).

It's a good enough trick that new amps like the Victory Sherif amps have a channel layouts that is kinda like this. The Sherif is a plexi circuit basically, and channel 1 is the 'high' input of a plexi, and channel 2 are the high + low inputs jumpered together... or something like that.

And plugins like Amplitube, UAD, Kazrog have it, hell even Pod farm had a model 'based on a super lead with jumpered channels'. I'm of course not saying that you need to have something just because someone else is doing it, and I feel silly comparing to other sims... but jumpering the channels on '4 hole Marshalls' is such a basic thing and real-life trick that you do expect it in a good amp sim of those amps IMHO.

Of course doesn't take anything away from the other good stuff that IS in Spark :P. (not wanting to sound negative after you just released this and put your hard work in!).

Btw, are you now official community manager for Mercurial or something? I rarely see roxolder posting these days.

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby johnnypig » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:36 am

Hi,

I love the demo and I think the amps sound great. I'm debating waiting to buy until you add channel jumping and maybe some advanced features like at least power tube biasing and voltage control.

This has a lot of potential and it feels really nice to play so my only constructive criticism is there's no real clean sounds on the 67 and 68. Even with the input knob low it's still hairy. Maybe also make the master volume bypassable on those amps?

Here's a Suhr SL68 which is basically a Marshall Super Lead Plexi with popular mods like internal channel jumping and a bypassable master volume on the back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH5IpjpT0rc

C.O.D.
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby C.O.D. » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:36 pm

All the amps only have two inputs - so no 4 inputs no jumpering, that easy.
Btw, I also would like to hear what Roxolder himself thought about doing the things like he did - I mean did he simply forgot the pan e.g.? Does he really think, one can pan a stereo reverb to one side and that's it? Kind of strange... So the pan is absolutely needed to position the guitar before the delay and the reverb. And in order to use the e.g. delay, what I'd like to do, I need some kind of IR-Loader to get my impulses into the chain. Surely no need for the 100th loader but in this case it's necessary since they want a complete product (and honestly without talking about the sound of the built-in cabs - 4 cabs and three mics is far from complete). If one is going this way it has to done consistent - IMO
And my previous question stays unanswered - is there some impedance thing going on with built-in cabs that I don't get when bypassing them in order to use external IR's?
I intentionally did not yet talk about the sound of the amps but ordering probably comes tomorrow...

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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby jorismak » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:45 pm

Spark's amps have two inputs yes. But a real world Super Bass and Super Lead have 4 holes and are popular amps to bridge the channels.
The jcm has two inputs in most real world versions (although there are a lot of different versions :)) and the afd for sure has two inputs.
I always thought the inputs on a jcm and afd were just a sensitivity thing, like a pad or different impedance. On plexi style amps as the Super Lead they are really voiced differently .

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Metafis
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:01 pm

@jorismak
My name is Slava and I am dealing with public relations in Mercuriall, yes. Roxolder is dealing with development only.

I've added jumping into the "future ideas" list.

@johnnypig
Thanks for the feedback.
While I added jumping to the feedback list, I do not guarantee that it will be developed. Please do base your purchase decision on the discussion we have here =)

Have you tried the 67 and 68 with the Low input as well? I actually got cool clean sounds with the 800's low channel. I used split coil on my guitar.
Bypassable master added to feedback list.

@C.O.D.
Can't have everything in the v1.0, otherwise it would have been another x months before the release happens =) We have finite development resources and have to make hard decisions what to include and what may be a future feature.
Panning is in the feedback list.

Re. cabs - I'll ask. Afaik, there is nothing special going on. We are not revolutionizing the cab modeling. Yet =)
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com

jorismak
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby jorismak » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:21 pm

First time in months I picked up one of my guitars. Didn't restring it but I have faith in the Cleartone strings :).

Really enjoyed playing through it! An hour passed in no time at all noodling and trying out sounds.
Really liking the recognizable Marshall tones. Even high gain it got that recognizable 'old school' amp sound, with a rawness and raspiness that I associate with Marshall.
The AFD high channel scooped a bit with a pedal in front is the only time I thought it sounded modern and/or American. Every other setting got that British crunch thing going on.

Also, full but not boomy. Surprised at how tight they are. Expected more bass booming and flub from vintage amps. While the Super Bass and Super Lead go there when pushed hard, they are all very manageable, even without a pedal in front.

Had pretty easy time getting _early_ van Halen sounds and slash like sounds. You know, the rock and hard rock but still clearly British and old school amps.

Also, the lower sensitivity input on the jcm got me a very good clean sound. Coil split my neck humbucker , low sensitivity input, high master gain low to medium normal gain and I have a very nice clean sound. Not on the edge of break up but real clean. But still 'tube clean' and not the sterile sound of a solid state clean amp. And I didn't touch my input level .
My neck humbucker is more vintage style in output though, but my interface level is set pretty hot so that doesnt matter.
I can get a good crunch (not high gain) sound to a very clean clean sound just my picking, not touching the volume control or settings. So, dynamics seem OK :).

There are more amp sims who reach that these days, but it's still nice to notice.

I'm not saying Spark is blowing all other Marshall amp sims out of the water. I don't find myself qualified (anymore ) to judge like that.
But it surely is up there with the nicest of them.

I see clearly a roxolder plugin :). Features have some weird things going on or weird omissions, but the sound is special
Last edited by jorismak on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Metafis
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Re: Mercuriall Audio Software

Postby Metafis » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:26 pm

jorismak wrote:First time in months I picked up one of my guitars.

I could have stopped reading at this point. Our mission clearly accomplished! :cheers: :D
Thank you for such a detailed post. Will copy it to our guys for inspiration!
Ibanez RGD2127 (BKP MM set) | RG2620 QMSP (BKP Nailbomb bridge) >> FAS AX8 >> SPL Crimson | Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
The most extreme amp modeling - www.mercuriall.com


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